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mesonic	Caroverine	Lead	[-]
Posts: 137 01/09/11 9:32 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Tags : None Caroverine has been investigated as a possible solution to cochlear synaptic tinnitus (ex. noise induced tinnitus). After reading extensively on Caroverine online, it appears that the biggest difficulty is identifying a suitable way to administer the drug. According to past studies and clinical trials, it has proven to show efficacy for this particular form of tinnitus. Anybody with a medical background that has a take on this? I remember a response by Dr. Nagler to a previous thread on Tinnitin (the label used by a pharm in India for Caroverine), where he said "it will not work." Why will it not work? Will it not work for cochlear synaptic tinnitus? or is that a general response to all forms of tinnitus since they are very different and one solution will not work for all?
north		#1	[-]
Posts: 189 01/09/11 12:37 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	No medical background, but I think that yes it would work well for some cases of tinnitus (noise or drug induced cochlear hair / cell death). For those cases where tinnitus has centralized I believe it would work partially, and then allow for treatments such as Neuromonics, to reach their full potential for retraining the brain to reduce/remove the noise. I also agree that the system to administer directly to the inner ear has been one of the main barriers to treatment so far. Looking forward to the results of the clinical trials starting shortly.
mesonic		#2	[-]
Posts: 137 01/09/11 1:00 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Thanks for the response, North. I was thinking along the same lines. Treatment with Caroverine in combination with Neuromonics or something like the upcoming 'Mutebutton.'
DrNagler		#3	[-]
Posts: 964 01/10/11 7:57 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	mesonic wrote: Caroverine has been investigated as a possible solution to cochlear synaptic tinnitus (ex. noise induced tinnitus). After reading extensively on Caroverine online, it appears that the biggest difficulty is identifying a suitable way to administer the drug. According to past studies and clinical trials, it has proven to show efficacy for this particular form of tinnitus. Anybody with a medical background that has a take on this? I remember a response by Dr. Nagler to a previous thread on Tinnitin (the label used by a pharm in India for Caroverine), where he said "it will not work." Why will it not work? Will it not work for cochlear synaptic tinnitus? or is that a general response to all forms of tinnitus since they are very different and one solution will not work for all? My opinion is that it will not work. Fortunately, however, whether or not it will indeed work is not dependent upon my opinion. Mesonic, rather than asking why I believe it won't work, one question might be to consider why - based upon good science and a thorough critical reading of the studies (not just the abstracts) any objective party would believe that it would work! Just being honest here. smn
mesonic		#4	[-]
Posts: 137 01/10/11 4:48 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Dr Nagler, I thought your opinion may have been specifically because you did not believe a glutamate antagonist drug would have any affect at all. Honestly, I'm not too sure what to think about Caroverine. It's been investigated since the 90's... and it's just surfacing now. I read that it is already used as a treatment for tinnitus in Austria. If this is true, how come there is nobody from Austria posting about their success online? Then again, there are multiple glutamate antagonist drugs currently being investigated for the purpose of treating cochlear synaptic tinnitus. Look at AM-101 for example. If multiple pharmaceutical companies are investing time/money/resources into glutamate antagonist drugs... could this be a positive sign that there MUST be something to this treatment? Also, they have passed several drug trials/phases... and have been granted permission for a Phase 2b trial to investigate optimal dosage for treatment... I assume there has to be SOMETHING to this? I just can't see it simply being another "ring stop" or "t-gone" or snake oil. Who knows really... Wishful thinking maybe... It just seems like so much potential treatments are caught up in trials... with their potential release so far away.
DrNagler		#5	[-]
Posts: 964 01/11/11 12:38 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	If something were discovered that could predictably eradicate tinnitus or lower the volume of tinnitus for a defined subset of the tinnitus population, it would be in the news headlines across the world (even if it were discovered in Austria!) That said, I have found the best strategy for me personally is to assume that such a drug will not be discovered in my lifetime and focus instead on strategies for decreasing my aversive response to tinnitus, which fortunately I have been able to do successfully. So now, for me, the discovery of a drug would be a bonus rather than a goal. Hope you find your path. smn
carl08		#6	[-]
Posts: 32 01/12/11 7:42 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I read that it is already used as a treatment for tinnitus in Austria. If this is true, how come there is nobody from Austria posting about their success online? Because there is no effect on Tinnitus. And it is not only used in Austria, it was widely used in Germany and Switzerland in the late 90's but vanished from the scene because of its total ineffectiveness. Caroverine showed up around 95 when Ehrenberger from Vienna published a successfull study but this remained the only succesfull one and after some time he made a mock of himself 'cause despite all other negative experiences with Caroverine he still claimed to have found the miracle cure. He retired some years ago and claimed it until his last working day. Usually it was given as 2 or 3 infusions, the drug was not expensive but the infusions were because during and after the infusion you have to be monitored by MD's in case of cardiovascular problems and additional to make a lot of preliminary bodychecks and all this makes a nice bill. Last Edited By: carl08 01/12/11 7:44 AM. Edited 1 times.
openlcr		#7	[-]
Posts: 13 05/24/11 9:16 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I had read these posts earlier this year and began to investigate caroverine myself. In so doing, I came across several published articles on NMDA receptor antagonists and tinnitus. However, most tested compounds are not currently on the market as drugs. The results are very interesting as there does seem to be a link between NMDA receptor blockade and reduced tinnitus. In my own case I have found a botanical product that does seem to help my particular case of tinnitus. It too is a NMDA antagonist. Since I am a director of R&D for a small pharmaceutical company I don't take this one case - mine - as meaning it will help everyone. But I have spoken to many researchers around the world and they seem to agree the blockade seems like it has a chance of working. Much more research to do however, and we have just begun. For now I'd say that caroverine may have some value if it can be delievered into the cochlear area. That may be the ultimate problem to be solved. As for our research we are not trying to develop a new drug just trying to see if an existing botanical extract can do the job either topically or orally. I do have a vested interest in this more then sales for our company as I have had terrible tinnitus. I will keep everyone posted if we are having success. For now I am only an experiment of one but at least for me it seems to help - for now. I wish everyone well.
dreyno		#8	[-]
Posts: 629 05/24/11 9:28 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Thank you openlcr - I knew there had to be researchers like you out there who have BOTH the motivation AND the resources to research tinnitus. Its why I remain optimistic something positive will happen sooner rather than later. (In the meantime keep up with habituation). Good luck and please keep us posted!
goodsonora		#9	[-]
Posts: 69 06/07/11 9:11 AM TSMB Supporter Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	This post of openlcr is very encouraging for people suffering from tinnitus. I hope you get success in your research. Please do post your findings. Thanks.
mallardman	Botanical product NMDA inhibitor	#10	[-]
Posts: 1 05/02/12 1:47 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hi, I just recently read your post from May 2011 about a botanical product that is a NMDA inhibitor that you are using. What is it? Have terrible tinnitus that mostly do to cochlear damage and aging. I will try anything with the slightest chance of helping. Thank You, mallardman
Moz		#11	[-]
Posts: 1286 05/02/12 3:03 PM TSMB Supporter Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	mallard, that post is almost a year old. Not sure if openlcr still checks in here, but you can send him/her a private message & find out Anyway, sorry to hear about your terrible tinnitus, but on this board you'll meet many with "terrible" tinnitus, myself included. Introduce yourself, tell your story & others will chime in with help & advice. Remember, you're not alone with this malady. The majority of those stricken with t get their lives back

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