Therapy at the Valentina Hotel in Estonia? in Archive 3 Forum

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Therapy at the Valentina Hotel in Estonia?

Author	Comment
moonlight man	Therapy at the Valentina Hotel in Estonia?	Lead	[-]
Posts: 715 08/13/03 6:21 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Has anyone had any treatment done at the Valentina Hotel in Estonia. Was it successful? Did it reduce your tinnitus? Or was it unsuccessful? Moonlight man
nomoret 2003	Re: Therapy at the Valentina Hotel in Estonia?	#1	[-]
Posts: 1885 08/13/03 6:36 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I haven't been there but I've contacted them. They let me know they do NOT currently have a database. No database = no reliable studies.
Oz Greg	Re: Therapy at the Valentina Hotel in Estonia?	#2	[-]
Posts: 21778 08/13/03 8:02 PM Under the Southern Cross. Admin. Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	ask for Sveta! oh! byo soap! greg
Stephen Nagler	Re: Therapy at the Valentina Hotel in Estonia?	#3	[-]
Posts: 2056 08/13/03 8:07 PM Banned User Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	*Quote:* They let me know they do NOT currently have a database. That's the same response I got two or three years ago when I contacted Dr. Shemesh's program at Hadassah - they were too busy treating patients to keep a database and formally monitor results. Hopefully things have changed there. smn
workhard	Re: Therapy at the Valentina Hotel in Estonia?	#4	[-]
Posts: 90 08/13/03 8:47 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I to am very interested in a report from someone who has had a treatment there. If the treatment does not work it would save people a lot of money & especially any high expectation they might have. No database on record sound a bit risky. If I was winning the battle with Tinnitus treatment & had a commercial business wouldn't you spend the time and build up a data base. Surely they have something available for prospective patients ! ( maybe just hope, see & pay ) Actually that what I did with , chiros, accupunture, homepathy, TRT, lidnocaine, TMJ splints etc sec, lots of etc
moonlight man	Valentina Clinic	#5	[-]
Posts: 715 08/13/03 10:36 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Thanks all for your replies. It seems that their method of treatment would include a lot of massage to the ear and body and a clean out of the nose and ears. Perhaps this is effective. Perhaps the massage would divert the tinnitus nerves into the body and not the ears. Still interested in any posts from patients at the clinic. Keep them posted.
ChristianFr	Re: Valentina Clinic	#6	[-]
Posts: 3845 08/13/03 11:43 PM Registered User Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I'd prefer published medical studies. As the clinic points out: "Russian doctors claims there are more than 250 different diagnoses for tinnitus, and only a few cases cannot be cured. [...] The treatment at Valentina Clinic is based on well used methods in the Russian health system. [...] In addition to the most modern equipment, well tested Russian and western medication is used." So where can I find publications on these well used methods from Russia? As I said I don't mind if the articles are in Russian. I can order a copy of articles from Russian medical journals without any problems and I know plenty of Russian speaking people who will translate the studies for me. It's absolutely no problem. My uncle speaks Russian, my former boss and his wife both speak Russian and best of all: I even know a fully licensed Russian translator who still owes me a favour! Christian
nomoret 2003	Re: Valentina Clinic	#7	[-]
Posts: 1885 08/14/03 5:51 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Christian, Have you contacted them and told them that? I think it makes no difference if it's Russia or Zimbabwe. The point is that if it seems a little exotic it might appear more likely that it'd be true. There was a lot of hush hush in Russia for a long time. Maybe their best kept secret is a cure to tinnitus. Now, I don't believe that but I'm sure they're hoping that I would!
ChristianFr	Re: Valentina Clinic	#8	[-]
Posts: 3845 08/14/03 8:05 AM Registered User Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	The funny thing is I personally know both the former Soviet Union (including the Baltic States) and Zimbabwe. To me the idea that they have a treatment there that was somehow ignored or overlooked by western medicine sounds totally absurd. I could imagine something like this in China as there are indeed many Chinese peer-reviewed medical journals that are not frequently read in the west. But Russia or Zimbabwe? I'm not even sure if they have their own peer-reviewed medical journals in Zimbabwe, but if they do you can be sure libraries in South Africa and Great Britain have their copies. And as far as Russian medical journals are concerned: The vast majority of doctors in East Germany, Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic and many, many other countries speak Russian. All the relevant Russian medical literature can be found in any larger library in Eastern Europe. And don't forget the large Russian, Ukrainian or Baltic communities in Western Europe or the United States either. The next Russian MD is about a ten minute walk from where I live. Christian
nomoret 2003	Re: Valentina Clinic	#9	[-]
Posts: 1885 08/14/03 9:00 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Christian, I know what you're saying. Still, if any place would be "exotic" to people it'd have to be the former Soviet Union states, the African countries or certain parts of Asia. I'm saying that far from all would be fooled by this tactic but enough would. Just ask simple question about other western countries to citizens of Europe, the U.S., Canada or Australia. You'd be suprised how little people know and how much prejudice there still is. So I do think snake oil places can and do get away with it too often.
Call Me Op	Re: Therapy at the Valentina Hotel in Estonia?	#10	[-]
Posts: 6096 08/14/03 4:15 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	smn wrote: they were too busy treating patients to keep a database and formally monitor results. ............ Certainly suspect. -Op
moonlight man	Valentina Clinic	#11	[-]
Posts: 715 08/14/03 10:41 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I know a little bit about Russian medicine. They are true initiators of the grape fast with many spas in Russia and the like. The Russian medical system is not the same as the American and western Europe. The Russians do not have the same levels of cancer rates as you would find in the western countries. I think that they have developed their technology away from the traditional "drug" and "your cured" approach of the west but utilised to more mechanical methods. Also if they could put a man to the moon and develop nuclear weapons, don't you think that their smart enough to cure certain complicated illnesses also. I feel hopeful that there is some truth in the Valentina clinic. But as yet I'm not 100% sure that this clinic really is effective. As from today we still have not got any replies form ex-patients of the place. But still hopeful
kai	Re: Valentina Clinic	#12	[-]
Posts: 1671 08/15/03 6:12 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	They're certainly very smart. But it would not be smart to keep a big breakthrough therapy secret. So it follows that there probably is none These clinics' webpages all look the same to me. I'll keep giving my money to hearing research instead. We're not there yet, we have to work a little bit harder.
nomoret 2003	Re: Valentina Clinic	#13	[-]
Posts: 1885 08/15/03 6:20 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	..and I'll donate to TMD and cervical spine research for now. I think they're on to something.
ChristianFr	Re: Valentina Clinic	#14	[-]
Posts: 3845 08/15/03 9:09 PM Registered User Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	>Also if they could put a man to the moon and develop > nuclear weapons [...] ...and of course nuclear power plants... Kind of reminds me of the Ignalia Power Plant in Lithuania. It's the same type of reactor as Chernobyl. Just one of the many, many dangerous health threats left over in the Baltic countries from the old days of the Soviet Union. One clearly has to have a lot of respect for the achievements of the Baltic Countries though and I know they're working very hard and succesfully on getting rid of these shadows of the past. I'm sure they'll also have a modern health system and good laws for consumer protection in the not too distant future. Christian
nomoret 2003	Re: Valentina Clinic	#15	[-]
Posts: 1885 08/15/03 10:04 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Christian, Did you guys get the becquerel obsession too? There was this constant talk about becquerel in things for years after Chernobyl.
jchinnis	Re: Valentina Clinic	#16	[-]
Posts: 17238 08/16/03 12:21 PM Registered Member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Christian, I think it might be a while until biological research and medicine in the former Soviet Union catches up to that in most of the rest of the world. The state philosophy ran against genetics and much of the underpinnings of modern biology. That has left a large vacuum--a few generations of biologists lost. Ironically, the US government is doing its best to achieve the same kind of state-mandated ignorance with its opposition to stem cell research and applications. Jim
nomoret 2003	Re: Valentina Clinic	#17	[-]
Posts: 1885 08/16/03 12:51 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	*Quote:* Ironically, the US government is doing its best to achieve the same kind of state-mandated ignorance with its opposition to stem cell research and applications. Because of religious belief, or?
Dirkh	Re: Valentina Clinic	#18	[-]
Posts: 6843 08/16/03 1:25 PM All around nice guy Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Pew Research Center For The People & The Press Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life ====================== The nationwide (U.S.) survey of 2,002 adults by the Pew Research Center and the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life finds that support for federal funding of stem cell research has eroded somewhat since last August... Religious commitment is the most important factor influencing attitudes of opponents of stem cell research. While white evangelical Protestants stand out as the group most opposed to federal funding for stem cell research, this opposition is largely limited to highly-committed white evangelical Protestants, who oppose federally-funded stem cell research by three-to-one (58%-19%). www.pewtrust.org/pdf/ vf_pew_research_religion_cloning.pdf
ChristianFr	Re: Valentina Clinic	#19	[-]
Posts: 3845 08/16/03 11:05 PM Registered User Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Nomoret wrote: >Did you guys get the becquerel obsession too? You can bet on that. From where I live it's less than two days by car to Chernobyl (excluding the long delays at the borders to Belarus and the Ukraine). Jim wrote: >Christian, I think it might be a while until biological research > and medicine in the former Soviet Union catches up to that > in most of the rest of the world. I agree. Most places of the former Soviet Union are lightyears away from becoming modern scientific research institutes. The old structures of the institutes (or the whole state for that matter) have not been changed drastically enough and that's probably the biggest problem there. However, I think the situation in the Baltic States (Lithuania, Latvia & Estonia) is completly different compared to the rest of the former Soviet Union. Having been there very recently I was very, very surprised how good things were going compared to the rest of what used to be the Soviet Union. Latvia, Lithuania & Estonia are very modern states and it's best to compare them with Hungary or Poland rather than Russia or the Ukraine. There are many shadows of the past and especially pollution is still a big problem, but nevertheless I predict a bright future for the three Baltic States. From what I've read the universities of Tallinn, Riga & Vilnius apparently are on their way of becoming very modern international research institutes as well. I think it won't take very long before people will be very pleasantly surprised of the scientific achievements in countries such as Estonia, Poland, the Czech Republic, Hungary or Slovenia. There's a whole generation of young scientists there just waiting to become a bit older and one of the biggest problems I see in Western Europe at the moment is a completly ignorant attitude towards what's happening in those countries. I'm afraid many people in the west will have to learn the hard way that the future members of the European Union will eventually be serious economic and scientific competition. Christian
tonyjeffs	Re: Valentina Clinic	#20	[-]
Posts: 4157 08/17/03 12:59 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I wouldn't be too influenced by a database if the treatment centre had one. It wouldn't tell you nearly as much as appears. Because:- 1. It is administrated by people with a vested interest, so it suffers from exactly the same weakness as an un-controlled un-blinded trial. (Unintentional administrator bias in favour of the result he wants) 2. It is based on a self-selecting group of people who choose to be patients, rather than a random sample. One would typically expect around 80% of a self selecting group to report success irrespective of the direct physiological efficacy of the treatment. (eg 80% of people who pray regularly believe that God pays attention to prayers; whereas only around 30% of the population at large believe this, -since many of them don't believe in God. ) 80% looks like a highly significant success rate, but in this contextit just means as much as most cats like cat-food. "Self-selecting group!" The best way to decide whether a treatment is right for you is to talk to people who've done it, and who aren't on the payroll or otherwise linked with a treatment centre. So I think you're going about it the right way Tony

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Therapy at the Valentina Hotel in Estonia?

Therapy at the Valentina Hotel in Estonia?